Julie Ulrich: When you are just tossing everything, you never know what you might be tossing if you don't really take the time to go through it. And when I was cleaning out my dad's filing cabinet, somebody could have looked at that and just said, I'm just going to toss it all in the trash. It was old resumes of his.

He was a computer programmer. It was a bunch of papers that meant nothing to me. But I went through it because I know you never know what you're going to find and that's when I found my grandmother's diary from Pearl Harbor buried in the bottom of the filing cabinet.

Intro: Welcome to The Death Readiness Podcast. I'm Jill Mastroianni, an attorney with more than a decade of practical experience and trust in estates, here to demystify the complexities of planning for the inevitable. This podcast is your guide to navigating estate planning and end-of-life preparation with clarity, compassion, and empowerment. Let's spark the conversation, shift perspectives, and explore how to embrace death readiness together, courageously and thoughtfully. 

Jill Mastroianni: Hello and welcome back to the Death Readiness Podcast. In our first guest interview, I have the pleasure of speaking with Julie Ulrich, the founder of Organized Legacy, a business dedicated to helping individuals and families navigate life's most significant transitions. Julie brings years of experience and a deeply personal perspective to her work. I'm thrilled to share Julie's insights with you today.

Hi, Julie. Thank you so much for being the first guest on The Death Readiness Podcast.

Julie: Hi, Jill. Thank you so much for inviting me. I am so excited to share my story and be a part of this important conversation. 

[01:47]

Jill: I wanted to get some background from you and how you got started in doing this type of work. I don't imagine this is something that you've been doing since you, you know, graduated high school.

So what kind of life developments brought you to this type of work? 

Julie: Yeah, I think, you know, over the years I was in business as a personal concierge for 20 plus years. But it was after, you know, the loss of my mom, of course, was, was a big life change. She was 68. I was 42. And, you know, I think just seeing what we went through with her and not ever talking about it and having to figure out all the things.

And, you know, my mom was the one that took care of all of the finances. My dad never paid a bill, I don't think, until she had passed. So I saw what, you know, what we went through with that. And then, again, throughout the years, coming across clients that I'm helping that, just happen to be in a situation where they've lost a loved one and they're trying to figure out all the things and they've come to me as a personal assistant and then after my dad passed, you know, and the kids have left the house and I think you just, you start seeing life through a different lens, you know, after you've had so many life changes.

I mean, I've always had in my life, I think a lot of loss. I've lost a lot of friends. I'd always been drawn to the space. Before I knew that was a space to be drawn to, but even from a young age, I've, I've lost a lot of family, a lot of friends. I think just as I've gotten older and the loss of my parents and going through all those things myself, it's just fueled my passion.

[03:21] 

Jill: I thought we could talk about where we met, which was, the Professionals of After Loss Services PALS Summit in Atlanta. How did you learn about that group or get involved with that group? 

Julie: I was just researching the services of after loss, which actually I wasn't looking for after loss, I was looking for, you know, funeral concierge.

That was always the term I had, had known and actually had provided, kind of in a loose way, you know, I had a funeral concierge was part of my service. And so I've had clients throughout the years that we've helped with that after loss side, but it, it wasn't, I didn't, I never called it after loss services until I found PALS.

Jill: And I think that's part of the struggle that these professionals have is that there isn't a name for what they do as after loss professionals.

And that's part of what the group is trying to mainstream. So if someone is looking for somebody who provides these services and how would you describe the services that an after loss professional offers? 

Julie: Well, I think that a lot of times we're holding their hands through a really difficult time. So I, I don't, I think it's hard to describe like universally because everybody's in such a different spot.

Jill: So when we say after loss, what is the loss that we're talking about?

Julie: The loss of a, a family member, uh, someone that you're in charge of there, maybe it wasn't a family member, it was a friend that puts you in charge. 

Jill: So a death. 

Julie: A death.

Jill: When someone is thinking about after loss services, it sounds like from what you're saying, that that can be a wide range of things that these professionals offer from sort of handholding in the immediate aftermath of death through helping with funeral arrangements through the estate administration process and ultimately, ultimately settling the estate. 

[5:14]

Julie: Yeah. And I think each of the companies have their own niche that they really excel at. So for me, you know, I really, cause that's what I'd done for, for many years is I help with the stuff. So trying to figure out what to do with all this stuff. So while I help them handle the practical details, almost as a personal assistant, and that's the way I've always described my business, because I'm a personal concierge for 20 plus years, is that I'm a personal assistant. 

Anything that you can give someone else to do to help relieve your load is what we do. But then all the way through to clearing out the home. Like I have a client I'm working with right now. She lost her mom and her sister within four months of each other. 

Jill: Oh, wow. 

Julie: And they lived together. So she's got a house full of stuff. So while she's a hundred percent capable of handling everything on her own, and she's done most of the paperwork side of things, she just, she can't deal with the stuff, you know, you're dealing with the emotional. 

Jill: When you say stuff, you mean literal, tangible stuff in the decedent's house?

Julie: Right. We're talking about a lifetime full of belongings, which is everything from, you know, sentimental, to things that just have no meaning whatsoever, that they just held on to. 

Jill: When you're handling the, the stuff, what kind of tools do you bring to the table to help with that process?

Julie: To avoid, from my clients, because we don't want to just, right, we don't want to carry this on to future generations, so the goal is to not keep too much things, but to identify the things that really matter and, the things that don't matter.

We try to find meaningful ways to donate them. Of course, if they're trying to extract some money to help, you know, settle the estate and take care of the affairs, then we try to find sources for them to sell some items.

But I think the biggest challenge I find is people feeling guilty. They're feeling guilty about throwing out mom's, you know, lifetime of this, that or the other thing because they have no use for it, but they just feel guilty. So that a lot of times, it ends up going to their house. And so we try to avoid that.

Jill: So, what type of things are you finding with this particular woman who's clearing out? You said her mom and her sister were living together? 

Julie: Mom and her sister both, you know, within months of each other. And she's actually doing a very good job. She just can't, she doesn't want to physically deal with it.

She's an executive. She travels a lot. And so, this family has, and they've taken most of what they want, but then they're trying to figure out what to do with everything else. So we're working to find meaningful places to donate the items that are there. And so, you know, if we have a client that's an animal lover, then we try to donate as much as we can to, you know, the Humane Society.

If it was a veteran, we try to find it, same thing I did when, when my father passed away. He was a Vietnam Vet, and so the vast majority of the things that were left after my dad died went to the Vietnam Veterans of America, because I know that would have meant something to him.

Jill: Did they go to charitable organizations who sold the items and used the proceeds?

Julie: Sometimes, yes, so it depends on the organization. The other thing that we'll do is, I work with a lot of low-income senior communities, and so sometimes we can take, let's say women's clothing, and we can set up a closet in a community so that it can be, you know, complimentary items available for those residents that live there.

Jill: Right. 

[8:45]

Julie: So that really is a feel-good thing to do because, you know, somebody is directly going to use those items. So, really there's just a whole slew of different ways that we will try to dispose of people's things in meaningful ways. 

Jill: So I would say one approach to clearing out a house after someone passes, after maybe the family, you know, has what they want, is to put the rest in a bunch of trash bags and, and throw it out.

But for people who are wanting to do something more meaningful, sustainable, uh, environmentally sustainable, and to really pass on the legacy of their loved ones so that, you know, other people can benefit from the things that they've had, using your services is a good option for doing that. 

Julie: Yeah. The other thing is too, is when you are just tossing everything, you never know what you might be tossing if you don't really take the time to go through it.

And when I was cleaning out my dad's filing cabinet, somebody could have looked at that just said, I'm just going to toss it all in the trash. It was old resumes of his. He was a computer programmer. It was a bunch of papers that meant nothing to me. But I went through it because I know you never know what you're going to find, and that's when I found my grandmother's diary from Pearl Harbor, buried in the bottom of the filing cabinet.

[10:02]

Jill: And what did you find out, Julie? 

Julie: Ooh, what did I find out? I never knew who my grandfather was, but as I'm reading the diary, and I can tell my grandmother's writing about the swell officer that she was with right during Pearl Harbor, through Pearl Harbor. 

Jill: Also, for context, you never knew who your grandfather was.

Julie: I never knew who he was, and it's funny because, you and I have had a lot of conversations about telling the stories and how I wish I could ask questions now.

So as I'm reading this diary, she's like recounting those warning of Pearl Harbor, of the attack. 

[10:41]

Jill: And she's there, right? 

Julie: She was there, yes. 

Jill: And why was she there? 

Julie: She worked, it was like a civil servant job. 

Jill: Okay. 

Julie: And so, and she was very, very young. And they were together dancing, dancing under the beautiful moon at, at Hickams Officer Club the evening before Pearl Harbor.

Jill: Oh, wow. 

Julie: I think they had pulled an all-nighter, I believe, because they heard over the radio of the surprise attack and they jumped in the car. Because they weren't, they were not on base. Now, he lived off base. This man, this mystery man she was, she was with lived off base and so they rushed to Wheeler Field.

Jill: But he was in the military? 

Julie: Yes, he was an Army Air Corps bomber pilot and his name as she spelled it was C U H N D O G G E. So I'm assuming this was a last name, a very unusual last name, but I'm assuming this is his last name and she would call him her C. And so they rushed to Wheeler Field and, you know, she talked about over the next few days the blackouts, the, you know, just all the things and, helping those that were injured and because I never knew my grandfather and she's talking about how much she loves this man, I'm Googling the name because I'm thinking, well, could this be somebody that she, you know, what am I going to find out about this guy?

Well, I found nothing. I found absolutely nothing. Until, a few months later, I had some friends that were in town visiting and they had just visited Pearl Harbor. And so I said, Oh, I've got some great, you know, stuff for you. So I'm bringing them some of the things I brought downstairs of the diary that was my grandma's.

And, as I'm reading it, the husband is Googling. Well, he Googles it as it sounds. Coondog, C O O N D O G. And he starts telling me about this Army Air Corps pilot in Pearl Harbor, and he went on to have a son who was Gram Parsons, and I'm like, at this point, I'm like, who's Gram Parsons? I don't know.

You know, I'm like, this can't be right. This can't be. And so. 

Jill: Right. 

Julie: But his name, Coondog, was actually Ingram Cecil Conner, Jr. So I'm flipping through the diary. I had a picture that I had found that was, of four people on the beach in Hawaii. Clearly, you know, back in the 40s. And on the back it said, I. C. Conner, Jr.

Jill: Oh.

[12:52]

Julie: So now I know this man, this young man with these three women, one of them being my grandmother on the beach in Pearl Harbor, was this same Coondog. So now I know who this man she was in love with, who he was. But he had gone on, after the bombing, he had been sent off and he had contracted, malaria and had been sent back to the States in, uh, 43, I believe it was, 44.

Anyway, he had gone on, he married a woman that was from a citrus family in Florida, and they got married, and they had had a son, Ingram Cecil Connor III. Well, that was Gram Parsons, a musician back in the seventies. And so I'm finding all of this out only because of Gram Parsons being someone that there's been books written about him.

There's a whole, that's a whole other story for another day. But because of this Coondog being his father, I'm able to find out all these things about Coondog. So I'm like a dog with a bone when it comes, you know, to things like this. And so I'm like, gosh, could this be? So, through reading the books and, and researching online, I found that Coondog had a sister that was still living in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

So, stalker that I am, I, I reached out. I found the daughter. And they were thrilled. I told her, I don't know. I have a picture of your, you know, of your uncle and don't know if, if this is of interest to you. And, and I told her, I was kind of curious, could this have been my grandfather? And so she shared with her mother, who was 95 at the time and was just over the moon, finding a connection to her little brother.

Jill: Aw. 

Julie: Yeah, it was really, really cool. So through that, and through, again, I'm like a dog with a bone, and I'm digging through all the things I had brought back from my father's house when he, had passed away. And he, he was, across country, so I just brought a lot of the papers with me to go through later.

Well, I found his birth certificate, and, Ingram Cecil Connor Jr. was, in fact, my grandfather. 

[14:59]

Jill: So, yeah, if you could have started with that, that would have saved you a little bit of trouble, but not nearly as interesting. 

Julie: That's right. It would have been a fast track to get to where I did after months of, months of research.

But, I think though, it really has inspired me to get people to tell their stories, you know, now. Because I, what I would pay to be able to talk with my grandmother. And ask questions or even my dad, because clearly he knew more than he ever shared with me, you know, I am so passionate about getting people to tell their stories now and to talk with each other and not leave, you know, even though it was a kind of a little bit of a fun investigation, I think it would have been nice to know before when I still could ask questions of my dad.

Jill: And when you and I had this conversation before about you wishing that you could have asked your dad questions, and my dad is about the same age that your dad would be if he were still living, and he was also in the Vietnam War, so I thought, well, I've got to ask these questions now. And so my daughter and I, we started interviewing him and I learned so much about my dad that I didn't even know existed in his background and, and to see my daughter so engaged with what he was saying, it was so special. And so at this point, we've done four interviews. The, the first three were, were virtual, but we went over, to my dad's for the holidays and we did an in-person interview and he showed us some pictures from the Vietnam War. He had a picture with his best friend, Donnie Brewer, who, uh, was MIA in Vietnam.

He was never found. And, he left behind two little boys. My dad was the best friend, the best man in his wedding. And my dad had received a couple of medallions, a bronze star and he had Donnie's M.I.A.  P.O.W. bracelet and he had his dog tags from when he was in the Vietnam War and I had not seen real, you know, military dog tags before and they had his name, his social security number, his blood type, and his religion, Roman Catholic.

[17:30]

And it was just so interesting to see these things. And, and I have remembered stories that he had told me as a kid, but they were always short and, you know, really more for entertainment than for me to, you know, learn about him. I mean, we're still interviewing him and he, uh, I sent him the recordings every time and he listens to them and he shares them with his family.

And there's a tool that I learned about through you, really, called Artifcts, and I posted this photo of him at the finance forward office in Vietnam. Then I also included a two and a half minute audio clip of him saying how he ended up in finance in the Vietnam War. 

He was originally in the infantry, and thought, well, this is probably a death sentence for me, and how he got transferred, and he credits that with saving his life over there. And all these things. I wouldn't have known if you hadn't told me this story about your father. And then I started interviewing him, and he even said to me, you know, no one would know these things if we weren't having these conversations, you know, when I'm gone, those stories would have been gone.

And I think that's one of the most important things to get out of preserving someone's legacy is their stories. And I know that there are tools out there where you can buy a product where the person that you're wanting to learn about, whether it's your parent, grandparent, aunt, uncle, receives prompts via email, and then they respond with written responses, or even in some cases, they can respond with audio responses.

But, you're not engaging with that person live and letting that person know that you care about what they have to say, you know, and I think that's part of what makes it so powerful. 

[19:33]

Julie: It is such a gift for you, for your daughter, for your dad to be able to tell his stories. I mean, it's amazing. It is truly a gift.

And I think, you know, when you say conversations, I mean, that's what we need to be doing. You know, you were inspired by me telling you my story. You're going to inspire, you know, millions by telling your stories through your podcast. And I think that's just so important for us to have those conversations and to talk about, talk about the someday because, you know, you can't get it back.

There's nothing, nothing you can do. You know, I'm fortunate that I was able to find the information I found out, but most people aren't going to have that connection that I had to be able to figure out what I've learned. It is such a gift to be able to talk with your loved ones now.

Jill: You know, I think that everyone has their own experiences and, and they're all different. But I think, you know, at the end of the day, doing what I can to help people prepare for a loss, and then when, when a loss occurs to, a loss occurs to make that as easy, I don't know if that's the right word, but as smooth a transition as possible because, like I said, from my perspective, I can't control the grief. There are people who can help manage that. There are professionals who can do that, and that's another topic. But because I know that you also do estate preparation, non-legal, but you know, organization and getting things in shape for anyone sort of, you know, anticipating, uh, a loss or even just to keep things organized for daily living purposes.

Julie: You know, just to get their ducks in a row. You know, when my mom died, you know, I don't know how it was in your family, but we never talked about like the someday at all. It was just not, it was a taboo subject. And so when my mom got sick, it was a short, very short illness and, I'll never forget the day that we were standing in the hospital and they told us she had passed, you know, we were, what?

And they, the nurse came over and handed us a piece of paper and said, where do you want to send her? And, you know, we're looking at each other like, what are you talking about, where do we want to send her? We didn't even understand that. We had never talked about it. We didn't know, okay, we need to pick a funeral home and all those things that come next.

[21:48]

So, for me, again, what you're doing and what I'm doing, us talking about it and getting people to start thinking that way ahead of time. Because even though it doesn't make it easy, it does make it easier. 

After my mom passed, it was like a switch flipped for my dad. From that moment on, you know, he went and saw the estate attorney, and he got all of his affairs in order on that side, you know, prearranged his cremation after he had passed. 

And, you know, we, we knew all of that, but my dad never tackled the stuff, as we say, you know, so he had a, a house. Well, my, my parents had lived in the home for 30 years, and they had, they were, collectors, we'll say. So there was a lot of stuff.

So for me, you know, yes, I want to be there to help people walk through all of those things afterwards, but also to encourage them to not leave a mess for their loved ones, because somebody someday is going to have to pick up where they left off, clean up the mess, take care of all the things. And so the easier that you can make it on your family, like I will not do that to my kids. My kids are not going to have 30 years of stuff in a home to have to clean out. They're going to know what to do. 

Jill: Well, what's interesting, too, is my mom passed away, uh, just a couple months after I graduated law school. So I graduated law school. I went to my parents’ house to study for the bar exam. So that was nice because I got to be, although I was studying a lot, I was present in the home with my mom during that summer.

And then once I left, that was the last time I, I saw her. She passed, after I left for the summer. And I didn't know all the things that I know now about not just the legal side of estate planning, but all the other details that go along with it. But, I did know enough to make sure that they had updated health care powers of attorney because I knew that there were going to be health care decisions that needed to be made and I remember in talking to my mom about it, you know, she chose my dad. He was going to make decisions for her. 

[23:55]

And then I asked her, who do you want to make decisions for you if dad can't? And she said, well, not you! You're never going to let me go. And I thought, I mean, I'd like to think I could let her go, but she knew me so well. And so she listed my sister, my, my older sister as the backup to my dad.

But my dad said, no, Jill's going to let me go. I'll put her, I'll put her second on mine. And one thing that I had not thought about, and of course I'm so fortunate that we didn't run into this emergency is, I knew my mom was ill, I knew she would likely pass before my dad, but I did not contemplate what if my dad suddenly died.

You know, I was relying on him to handle everything. They had a live-in caregiver and I was living in Nashville. My parents were living in the Adirondack Mountains of New York, so it wasn't like I could just go over and fill in. And, I certainly would be thinking about that now to make sure that I knew everything that my dad knew, so if something happened to him, then I would at least be able to carry on with the care my mom was getting and sort of keep everything as, as seamless as possible.

And after my mom passed and when I was practicing as, an attorney and doing trust and estates work, and I had connected my dad with a really good attorney near where he lived, who got his documents in order, I asked him if I could, you know, see what he had and make sure that I had all these details.

And he said, Oh yeah, no, everything is just in the top dresser drawer. You don't even need to look at it. It's all there. Everything you need. And I thought, well, I'm not sure that he knows what I need. And so I went and I looked in that top dresser drawer. And it was not nearly everything I needed. 

Julie: Oh, no.

[26:08]

Jill: And so, I had a conversation with him about what I was going to need. And even when I was visiting him over the holidays, I was updating information because he was hospitalized in September. And, you know, we were updating all of his medical information and the medication he's on, making sure that the right people had this information and then where did I put extra copies, and so it's needed, and it's needed in an instant and it was just so helpful that he, he's open about sharing that information and he just handed me a whole bunch of papers to go through and I found his car registration in there and I, I pulled it out and said, I don't know if this is an extra copy and he said, Oh, I've been looking all over for that.

So, sometimes it just helps to have another person have that information. And also, when he was in the hospital, he didn't know where his health care power of attorney was, where his living will was, so I had that, you know, the things that I could just easily step in and provide for him and all the other, you know, million details that I would need to know, not just if he were to pass, but if he were sick and I needed to keep things going for him.

You know, that's a lot of what people don't think about is, well, I could need help while I'm alive. 

[27:44]

Julie: This is true, yeah. And I, you know, a lot of my older clients that I work with on an ongoing basis, it's just for that reason, you know, because the older we get, the harder it is to keep up with all the things, and the mail that comes into our homes, and the important information.

So having just somebody by your side to help make sure that everything is organized, nothing slips through the cracks, that's very important. 

[28:07]

Jill: And when I was going through my husband's files recently to just make sure that all of our information was organized. I, I don't know, every time I leave, I think that I need to update everything through the day before in case something happens that Jeremy is ready for my death, you know, before every vacation or every trip I take and I found a folder, it was sealed shut and it said, open in the event of my death or incapacity.

And it was from an older family member. And I said, Jeremy, if you are in charge at this person's death or incapacity, I'm telling you, you don't have all the information you need in this envelope. And Jeremy would never think of opening something with directions, you know, not to open until a certain time, but I said, uh, these are conversations that you need to have with this person before incapacity or death, because when that happens, you know, that ship has sailed.

[29:18]

Julie: Right, at least list out what is in here. Maybe you don't want to see it now, but maybe what is it?

Jill: Exactly. And what are some of the tools that you use when you're helping someone get their life in order, their assets in order, kind of getting together that whole checklist of stuff that's often overwhelming to do on your own?

Julie: Well, you know, I always tell people there is no one-size-fits-all approach. It can be a pen and a piece of paper. It does not matter as long as you do it. So, anything from having, in fact, I have my grandmother's, this is where I must come from, I have my grandmother's one sheet, it's one sheet of notebook paper that had everything on it.

And I know today our things are a little bit more complicated, might not fit on one sheet of notebook paper. She had all the account numbers and social security numbers and everything that somebody might need right there on that one sheet of paper. So it could be a pen and paper. It could be a spreadsheet in Excel.

It can be, there's certainly some great systems out there, such as Trustworthy. I'm a certified Trustworthy expert. I love that system. That's where your information's in the cloud. I'm working with a client right now who's a, retired judge, that we're getting all of his things in order because his daughters would prefer something to be digital.

So we're doing that for his daughters, but it really, there is no one-size. You, you don't need anything other than a pen and a piece of paper to do it. And when my dad was diagnosed with cancer, again, he had his, his legal stuff in order that he hadn't given me yet that whole, list of accounts or how to get into things.

[30:48]

So when he was diagnosed with cancer, he was given about a year to live. He had an advanced stage of esophageal cancer. And I was visiting there in Las Vegas from Virginia and he had me sit down at the kitchen table because he wanted to give me, you know, some information and I'm like, what? I want to give you some account numbers and some PIN numbers, logins and all of that.

And so I did, I sat down, did what I was told and I wrote it all down. It was just on, you know, on a notebook, and it's a good thing I did because he passed away less than six short weeks later. So, again, that was a gift that he gave me because I was able to access those accounts, so it doesn't have to be fancy.

Jill: It is a good point what you said about Trustworthy, and that's not the only digital tool available, but if you have something stored in the cloud and then people who are not necessarily in your, your same physical location will have access to it. And I know that a lot of times, especially with older individuals, having stuff in a cloud, it can be a little bit more confusing.

And so while I store my dad's information in the cloud, I use something called Everplans, I do that so that I can always have access and that, if someone else, I mean, he can have access, too, if he wanted it, but then I also just print it out and I put it in that top drawer. He likes to see things that are physical.

And so if he needs something and, and now that I am aware that he's not going to go into the cloud to get his living will or his healthcare power of attorney, I've printed a few. And I left it along with his medical information sheet in that top drawer and I even went ahead and took all of his health care, you know, insurance cards and his driver's license and I just left that, put those within that same document.

So if he has a medical emergency, I can tell whoever is with him or if he, you know, is able to do that on his own, go to that top drawer, grab these things that are there and that can save a lot of difficulty. 

[33:02]

Julie: One of the most important things is that if we put these things in place, we need to tell the people we need to know, right?

Jill: Right. 

Julie: That's another thing. I've heard stories where, you know, they had that stuff in place, but it was in a drawer and nobody knew about it. And so months later, you know, it was found when it could have saved a lot of heartache. So I think that's really important, too, is however you decide to put those things together, it's so important to make sure that whoever's going to be in charge knows where to find those things.

Jill: And I did want to talk to you just a little bit about Artifcts, because I know that you use it for your clients, and I think that this could be a really great tool for people, especially like you said, when you're cleaning out homes, and maybe it's not practical for someone to take all the sentimental items with them that maybe their loved one has left behind, or even if someone, a senior, is downsizing and wants to maybe get rid of some tangible items, but even if you're keeping that item to let the people in your family know why that item is special to you.

I was talking to one of my friends recently and she said that over Christmas she was at her parents’ house and her mother showed her these two candlesticks and told her a family story about where she got them and what they meant to her and said to her, and now you're the only person who knows that story, so pass it on.

And I said, you don't need to be the only one who knows that story, you know, you can take that information, and I told her about Artifcts, not that we're doing an advertisement for them, or not trying to anyway, but that's the only tool that I'm aware of that has this type of legacy preservation, so I thought maybe you could tell us a little bit how you use it and the experience that your clients have with it.

[34:54]

Julie: Yeah, so it is, it's a great way to store, you know, photographs, the story, whether it's, I know you did that with your dad, but and whether it's a written story, photographs, you can share it. You can make it public, you can share it with people now, you can have it set to share with people later, but it's just a place to gather the stories.

Jill: I know that it's a website, right? It's a website that you can go to and you can upload photographs, you can upload audio, you can upload video, and then you can insert a description, right into that website as to what that photo or audio represents and then you can choose whether you wish to make that information private or public and you can share a link.

There's also, I think, the option to generate a QR code for sharing that. 

Julie: Yep. You can also direct what you want to happen with the item someday. So whether you want that to be something to be donated someday or to be sold, that's something, too, that's important, if it's items that you're keeping. You know, to me, the, the greatest value of Artifcts is to be able to have something there where you have told the story, because if you think that somebody is going to, I have a Japanese fishing ball from my grandma, I'll use that as an example.

It's just this big, huge, green, you know, glass ball. It would mean nothing to my children. And I probably told them the story before, years ago, but I grew up hearing the story. And so when I, after my dad died, you know, I kept that because I really, truly knew the story. The kids would look at it and say, what is this and toss it, right?

It's not of any value, but I've told the story in Artifcts that this came from the Pacific Ocean in 1946 when your great grandmother and grandfather were on an army boat going from, you know, Hawaii to L.A. So maybe there's a chance that might be important to the kids someday because they know the story.

[36:53]

Jill: Is that a public article? 

Julie: I don't remember if I made it public or not.

Jill: Well, if you do want to make it public, we can share the link in the show notes to the show.  I'll also share the link to my father's Artifct that I set up with his photo and his audio. 

Julie: Okay. 

Jill: Also, I wanted to note that, you know, you mentioned that someone could say what they want to have done with that item. Just be careful, don't put your estate plan into Artifcts because that's not gonna, I know that's not what you meant, but I'm just clarifying that for people who are listening. 

Julie: Cut that part out. 

Jill: Don't say, I want this item to go to my sister, you know, Josephine, because this isn't, this isn't your will. Do that with an attorney.

Julie: Yeah, so I, I will make this public because, also what I did was, so that there was more to the story, 'cause I have the fishing float, but then I also have the papers that I had kept from July 11th, 1946. That was the orders, you know, to, for the army boat transport. 

Jill: Cool!

Julie: So, and you can include documentation, like backup documentation too. So, in multiple photos. So yeah, I will, I'll make that public.

[38:04]

Jill: And then you had also said that sometimes if you have a client who's saving something, you know, not everyone has a computer that they're comfortable using. You could just record their audio talking about the item. You can do a voice to text or you can just upload the audio and preserve that person's, you know, audio story about what the item is.

Julie: Absolutely. And you know, I don't ever want there to be a barrier from somebody from telling their story, so it can be on a post-it note on the bottom of the, whatever gets the job done. Because again, not everybody's comfortable with technology and not everybody has a you or a me there to help them either.

So it doesn't have to be sophisticated. Those tools are wonderful. I love them and it really enhances the storytelling that we can do. But it can be as simple as an index card, a post-it note, a notebook that tells whatever tells the story and passes it along. 

Jill: I think that's a really important point because for a lot of people the barrier to doing things like this is I don't know how or, oh, I, I really need to think about the story for a long time. I need to put it into the perfect words. No, you don't. Just say it. Just say it. Just get it done. Done is better than perfect. 

And I was talking to a friend about how I started doing these interviews with my dad and they were just over Zoom. Is that perfect? No, it's not perfect. It's not perfect audio quality, the video, I mean, we recorded the video to that is far from perfect, but I have it. I now have these conversations and I don't need them to be perfect. And she told me that she had started interviewing her dad a while ago, but she stopped 10 years ago because it was too hard. And what she had been doing was just sitting with him and taking notes.

[40:01]

And I told her, take that off your plate, you don't need to do that and this AI tool Otter AI that you actually told me about and I started using it to transcribe the conversations I was having with my dad. You can use that to record the conversations also. It creates a transcript and it creates a summary and an outline.

So she can just sit there and be present for the conversations with her dad, with her mom. She doesn't need to take notes. She doesn't need to do anything if she doesn't want to after the audio is recorded, after the artificial intelligence does the transcription and the outline and the summary. She's done and she has those memories, you know, she can share it with her family, certainly, but it doesn't have to be this onerous task that she's taking on.

She can just be having conversations with people she loves and cares about and wants to know their stories. And if it's not perfect, that's okay. The last time she did this was 10 years ago, and she stopped because it was overwhelming. So, you know, doing it in an imperfect way is way better. And I think to your point, too, about making information available to loved ones, you have a pen and a paper.

Don't think, oh, I have to purchase this product or I have to do that, because you don't have to do it perfectly, the information that you provide is already going to be so much more helpful than you never getting around to doing anything. And that's part of what I'm trying to provide on this podcast is just small tools, little actions that you can take.

And last week it was setting up the medical ID on your iPhone, uh, printing out the medical information form, and, you know, having it available for yourself, for your emergency contacts. That's one step that's going to be so useful. 

I was talking to another friend yesterday, and her husband had medical emergency this past week. He will be okay. But you know, the ambulance, the fire department was at her house. She's got three young kids and I have been talking to her about death readiness. I was at her house for Thanksgiving with my daughter and she was, you know, so on board. She was so excited and she said, you know, on the phone with 911 and all the emergency personnel are there, and I'm thinking, I didn't finish my planning. And she couldn't access her husband's medical information. And she said, I'm so grateful that, you know, he's going to be okay, obviously, but it is a huge reminder that we can't keep putting this stuff off. 

[43:04]

Julie: That is very true, and any steps we take are better than none, and like you said, done's better than perfect, but I think just, again, the importance of having the conversations so that we start thinking along those lines because, you know, it's not something everybody wants to think about, and whether that's death or whether that's that we're incapacitated or we're in the hospital and can't, you know, make our own decisions, just having the conversations because, you know, it's inevitable that something's going to happen to each of us someday.

Right? So we know that that's a for sure. But it's all those other unknown things. It just gives us peace of mind when we have our affairs in order. I mean, there's nothing more empowering. I use kind of a hybrid approach. You know, I have binders, I have the digital information, that when someone asks me for a piece of documentation and in like 30 seconds I can whip it out, that is such a great feeling to be able to do that.

Jill: I know I was helping set my husband up with, uh, long term disability insurance, and I was talking to the provider and he wasn't on the call. He had another appointment, but, you know, I whip out his driver's license. You know, I'm sharing my screen with his birth certificate and you know, I've got his social security card, everything at my fingertips.

And I like you, I use a hybrid approach because I do like to have the ability to share things electronically, but I do want, if there's ever an emergency, people know, look in this box, look right here, this is where you go, you don't have to mess with turning the computer on, just go here, this is where it is.

I guess other than my husband and the person who would take care of, you know, our affairs, if something happened to both of us, I do give, uh, her electronic access to the files. She doesn't live here. She lives in North Carolina, so I do need her to have electronic access. But for example, family who might need to help out, they know that there's the bin.

And if they need something, they can go in there. 

Julie: That's what I always say, I always say to my adult sons. I still call them my kids, but I'll say, you know, what are you going to do if I get hit by a bus someday? You know, I get the eye rolls and the sh I'm like, you know you're going to go get the binders, the binders with all the information. And they also have access to my digital account as well, but there's even more, I think, in the binders. 

Jill: And then you also have the original stuff. 

[45:28]

Julie: Yep. I have all of that in the safe, right, and they have all the things, you know, on my list, and I actually had just posted about that today, that I haven't done yet, that I'm going to do, is to write my obituary.

A little young, but you don't know, you know, you can update it. And, you know, that's another thing to speaking of updates is that, you know, we need to remind people to, that it’s not one and done, right. You need to keep things updated because our lives change. 

Jill: Yes, definitely. And that's why when I did go to my dad's house for the holidays, I took out all his information and I said, let's update what you have. And you know, he didn't have some accounts anymore. He wasn't seeing all the same doctors and that's just in a year's time

Julie: Right.

Jill: But I'm not reinventing the wheel. I’ve got everything in front of me and I'm just making edits. So yeah, it takes, you know, just a few minutes versus I know it's a bigger task to get everything together on the front end.

But I think a lot of people don't want to have these conversations because they say they're uncomfortable, but it's something you need to get comfortable with. And I think once we start normalizing talking about death, it's not necessarily as scary. And even with the podcast, the first episode I did, I was talking about, well, what if I died suddenly?

And my daughter listened to it and she's 13 and you know, it's not, didn't make her sad. It just was an education in how we take care of each other and how making sure that she's okay, even if something happens to me, is a priority for me right now. And I think the more that we can normalize that and those conversations for our kids, you know, and normalize those conversations with our parents, you know, everybody is just going to become a little bit more comfortable.

[47:26]

Julie: I think it's a little more difficult with our parents. Maybe it's, you know, the older we get, it's more real to us. So that's why, you know, I think the earlier we can talk about it, the better, because then we age, and with that, rather than, you know, coming to, I find it, I actually have a client in her 90s that when I bring it up, she didn't want to talk about it, you know, and you understand, you know, to her it's more real, but

Jill:, I think also it's the approach. You don't want to go in gangbusters and say, okay, I need to be ready for when you die. I need you to tell me all of your assets. I need you to tell me this. I need you to tell me that. That's not the approach that's gonna get you what you need.

You know, we're talking about small steps, manageable steps, and even if you feel like you want to take it all on right now, maybe the, or likely the person you're talking to is not going to be receptive to that approach. 

Julie: Small steps are very important, and just again, I always say, it's going to give you peace of mind, right. It's not necessarily, you know, each person's kind of different, but some people come and their goal is to make it easier for their loved ones. One day, those that are kind of fighting it, well, it's really going to make you have peace of mind now because, you know, your affairs are in order. I mean, it gives you peace of mind.

There's no doubt about it. 

Jill: Why don't you tell me a little bit about the volunteer work that you did over the holidays? I would like to share that, if that's okay. 

Julie: Yeah, that's fine. 

Jill: Just because I think it's so important that we're not just talking about taking care of, you know, someone's things when they're gone.

We also need to focus on taking care of people when they're here and when they're often forgotten. 

Julie: Yeah. 

Jill: And I think that what you did over the holidays was really important. 

Julie: So yeah, so it all started with my neighbor and I, it was after my dad had died. So, we, both my parents were gone and her parents had both passed away and we were feeling really sad that we didn't have our parents to, to buy for, you know, at the holidays.

And so I had a friend that was living in a senior community. And I had this idea that I wonder who doesn't have anybody to give them a gift. So I went into the office and I asked, them. I said, do you have anyone here that doesn't have any family, nobody to come visit them? And she said, why do you ask?

Well, I burst into tears. You know, it was, 

Jill: Oh

Julie: I burst into tears and I told her, you know, the reason I said, my friend and I just want to find somebody that we can buy for because we miss our parents. And, and so she gave us two ladies and we went and we shopped and we, we bought for them. We never even met them, but we just felt so good buying presents for someone that we knew didn't have anyone.

And so the next year, we had brought in a couple of other friends along these lines and we got some names from our local sheriff's department of people that they knew were not only socially isolated, but also in need and financially. And so we adopted nine that year, we went out and we shopped for them and delivered their gifts.

And when we were delivering, we just kept hearing that they couldn't believe that we were bringing this to them, that it's usually all about the children, right, the kids. And not that we don't love kids, but they said that they felt like seniors were often forgotten. Well, that just kept, you know, replaying in our heads.

And so, after that Christmas, we ended up forming a nonprofit, Silver Tree Seniors. And, it's grown, that was in 2019 when we actually formed the organization. And we went from, you know, our two or maybe nine the first year to, we are now filling the wish lists of over 500, close to 500. 

Jill: Wow. I didn't know it was that many.

[51:09]

Julie: I think we're right around 500 this year and how we do it is we have partners in the community. So we have what we call our elves in charge and they agree to take on wish lists and we get our wish lists from local community partners. So we have low income senior communities. We have meals on wheels because those are usually, you know, isolated seniors.

And then we also have some nursing homes and we let the service coordinators and activity directors identify those that are, again, either in need financially or that don't have that support system. 

Jill: Hmhmm.

Julie: We have an extensive wish list that they fill out and it's humbling, I guess you would say, when you see the things that they're asking for.

It's everyday essentials. 

Jill: The wish list, is that something that you could send me so people could see what you're providing if they want to start something like this where they live? 

Julie: Sure!

Jill: Excellent!

Julie: Yeah, so they fill out the wish list of what they want, and then we match them with our adopters. We have some individual adopters, but our elves in charge are the ones that are taking ten lists or more.

And, this last season we've had some young girls. That were, I believe they were eight and 11 or 12 when they started with us. They did one the first year, they did four, now we're up to 50. These young girls did 50 themselves this year through their teachers and their neighbors and you know, their friends and family.,

So it really just restores your faith in humanity to see all these people coming together. And there's not a lot of, a lot of organizations that focus in our seniors and older adults. 

[52:44]

Jill: I do think that's so important because holidays, I think, can, sometimes there'd be a lot of focus on, on what you want, when focusing on, on what you can give is also a really important element, especially for people who might otherwise be forgotten, and a lot of times that is, unfortunately, seniors because they're not necessarily top of mind, especially if they're, you know, in a facility with other seniors. It's not as if they're engaging with the general community on a regular basis. 

Julie: You know, I think you would be shocked to see a lot of what they ask for, things that we take for granted. You know, toilet paper, paper towels, you know, hygiene products. It's never anything extravagant. People ask me, well, what's on their list?

And you know, it's nothing exciting. We're not going to find the, you know, the PlayStation 5 or whatever, Xbox, whatever, whatever it is these days. You're not going to find those things. It's just everyday items. 

Jill: And if it is everyday items, that says to me that this isn't just something that people might want to think about doing over the holidays. You know, you don't have to wait for the holidays to do something like this. 

Julie: I would love to be able to have like something that this would actually be a throughout-the-year program, you know, and having people even just to do visits.

There's nobody here that does that. There are some volunteer organizations, you know, but to find those isolated seniors and then to just continue loving on them throughout the year. 

Jill: I think also to get back to the point of whatever you do, just do it. It doesn't have to be perfect. When you showed up that first time, you got two women who needed something.

Julie: Yeah. 

Jill: So if anybody is thinking, oh, I would like to contribute, but gosh, I can't organize, oh, 500. Well, you don't have to do 500 people. Show up somewhere and ask if you can have two names and ask if you can ask what those people need. And you don't have to wait for the holiday season. You can do that any time.

Julie: 100 percent because let me tell you, we never, ever thought that we would be doing what we do today. It literally was just those two women and us being sad and wanted to, you know, wanted to love on someone that didn't have anyone. So, yeah, you're right. Small, it doesn't matter. One of my good friends who's a social worker and she told me, years ago, people want to help, they just want to know what to do.

And so that's kind of what's driven me, is that there are people that they want to help, but they do get stuck in not knowing how or what to, how to do it. So I'm just here to tell them what to do, and they're, they're doing it. It's not me. 

[55:29]

Jill: You know, when I was at my dad's house over the holidays, my brother just randomly said to me, Jill, do you remember when we used to work at the cemetery?

We would ride our bikes over. I really don't recall what we did there. We were kids (laughing), so I can't imagine we did very much when it was strictly volunteer. I do remember that my mom gave us money so I could get a fribble at Friendly's, after. The cemetery was right behind a Friendly's in the town where we lived. So the, the fribble, the strawberry fribble, that was very much top of mind, but I don't remember exactly what we did in the cemetery itself.

Maybe we pulled weeds. I don't know, but it gave us something to do. And I hadn't thought about that in a while, but I suppose maybe that's what got me started in this business. But there was a big gap between my volunteer work behind the Friendly’s in the cemetery and, uh, my law school years and then becoming a trust and estates attorney.

But who knows, maybe that planted the seed for this type of work. 

Julie: Yeah, you never know, you know, how we get somewhere. And when you look back, you know, I don't think I ever really thought this is where I was going, but now looking back, I'm like, well, of course I was. 

I have documents on my computer from even before my mom died, where I was researching, like, funeral concierge. I was like, so, you know, I never really just dove in. So I know this is where I'm meant to be. There's no doubt. I don't think everybody's meant for this space. And I think we are. 

Jill: Yes. So just a reminder that Julie, she is with Organized Legacy, and that's organizedlegacy.com. But I'm going to put all of her information in the show notes for anyone who's interested in learning more about her, and what she does. So thank you, Julie. Thank you for coming on the podcast. 

Julie: Thank you, Jill. I'm honored to be your first guest. 

April: Hi, I'm April, Jill's daughter. Thanks for listening to The Death Readiness Podcast. My mom always says that death readiness isn't just about planning. It's about the people you leave behind and the legacy you create for them. We hope today's episode helps you think about how to take care of yourself and your loved ones, now and in the future. If you liked what you heard today, share this episode with someone you care about. Follow our show for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you're listening right now.